Kdo je možak na sliki?

Splošna diskusija o zgodovinopisju soške fronte in prve svetovne vojne.

OdgovorNapisal/-a yurko » 05.06.2006 14:45:40

klemen55 napisal/-a:Če uspeš najti približen datum, kdaj ti je bil sorodnik ranjen, se ti utegne želja celo uresničiti.

Heh, (zaenkrat) zahtevaš nemogoče.

Poročnik Jezeršek? Egon?

Pravkar sta padla na najstarejši trik na tem svetu. :laugh Menda nista mislila resno, da bi shranil Jezerskovo sliko pod "jezersek.jpg" in to v kvizu? Joj, joj, joj, joj..... :-D

Hm, imena datoteke sploh nisem pogledal. Sem se le spomnil, da je bilo o Jezeršku govora tudi na starem forumu.
prohereditate.com
yurko
Site Admin
 
Prispevkov: 2718
Pridružen: 08.06.2005 21:13:23
Kraj: Haliaetum

OdgovorNapisal/-a tomaz » 05.06.2006 15:12:00

klemen55 napisal/-a:Ne, tole ni poročnik Jezeršek. Gospod na sliki je po narodnosti Avstrijec (Nemec). Ivan Matičič ga omenja v svoji knjigi. Pozneje zelo znan general v drugi svetovni vojni. Evo, mislim, da sem povedal več kot dovolj. Menda ne bo sedaj težko uganiti o kom se gre tukaj. :-D

Ej, to pravljico za male otroke sem pa že preverjal in ne drži, ne gre za istega človeka. ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_von_Paulus

Beri tudi spodaj.
Generalfeldmarschall Friedrich Paulus

Paulus and Stalingrad; the names are always linked, the German commander who suffered
one of the greatest military defeats in history and the hitherto unknown Russian city where that
defeat took place.

Friedrich Paulus was born in 1890, in that narrow window of time which brought him to the
First World War as a junior officer and to the Second as a general. His birthplace was
Breitenau, a little country town deep in Hesse. His ancestors were of basic country stock
but some became minor public servants; Paulus's father was the cashier of an approved
school. He inherited good health, a fine physique and a noble bearing from those forebears
but he was far from being a 'von' a prefix frequently but mistakenly attributed to him. He
soon suffered from his lack of social status. After performing well at school, he applied for
a cadetship in the Imperial Navy but was refused. Disappointed, he turned to the study of law
at Marburg University but was quickly released from this when the German Army started to
expand in 1910 and to widen the social spectrum from which new officers came. He was
accepted as an officer cadet by a provincial unit, the IIIth infantry Regiment, a unit which also
carried the earlier title of 'Markgraf Ludwig's 3rd Baden Regiment'. Within two years, he
was a lieutenant and it was then that he met his future wife, Elena Rosetti-Solescu, a beautiful
young woman one year his senior, from a wealthy and aristocratic Romanian family. Her two
brothers were serving in Paulus's regiment and it was through them that Paulus met his bride
while all were on leave together in the Black Forest. Their first child, a daughter, was born
in 1914, the year in which Paulus went off to war.

The IIIth Infantry Regiment was part of the 28th Infantry Division, 14th Corps, 7th Army.
The 7th Army was not part of the great drive through Belgium of the Schlieffen Plan but
performed the more mundane task of pushing out from the Rhine through the Vosges to
confront the right-flank French forces on the frontier and hold them there by steady action
to prevent the French high command transferring forces to their threatened left flank. The
French, in turn, had their own plan for a violent general offensive in Lorraine, and there
followed the 'Battles of the Frontier' in which the French attacks were cut to ribbons.
Paulus's position at this time was Adjutant of his regiment's 3rd Battalion. In October
1914, after the Battle of the Marne, and the extension of the Western Front towards the
coast, the Army found itself north of Arras where the four-year-long trench warfare was
beginning. Paulus's regiment may have been in action against British troops on the
Vermelles sector in late October but the sources are conflicting and it may be that the French
were his only opponents in this hectic opening phase.

Paulus had to leave the front in November because of illness and he never returned to his
first regiment. His next posting was as Regimental Staff Officer to a much more prestigious
unit, the 2nd Prussian Jager Regiment. This was part of the Alpenkorps, a formation roughly
the strength of an enlarged division, which was not normally used for routine trench holding
but was reserved for fighting in mountainous country or for use as shock troops. Paulus
remained with the Alpenkorps for the remainder of the war, moving to the corps
headquarters in 1917 and carrying out staff duties throughout. He never commanded any
unit of any size at any time in the war.

The Alpenkorps served in Romania and Macedonia in 1915 and early 1916 but in June of
that year was flung into violent action in the later stages of the Battle of Verdun, making a
particularly successful advance against the village at Fleury. The Alpenkorps took 2,000
French prisoners but two-thirds of its own strength of 12,000 men became casualties during
this period. The corps remained on sectors facing the French until May 1917 until withdrawn
for a rest. The next major action was during the series of great German offensives in the
spring of 1918. On 9 April, the Alpenkorps took part in the attack on the mainly British
sector on the Lys. After a further rest in Belgium, the corps was back in action, in defence
this time, against the British counter-offensive on the Somme which started on 8 August.
The corps had to be withdrawn after a particularly hard fight at Epehy and spent the final
weeks of the war in Serbia.

The Armistice found Paulus holding the rank of captain and with only the routine decorations
of the Iron Cross Classes I and II. Little is known of the next few years, except that he
managed to stay in the small post-war army which the Allies allowed Germany to retain.
He served a two-year spell as a rifle company commander in the 13th Infantry Regiment
at Stuttgart (the commander of the Machine-Gun Company was Captain Erwin Rommel)
but Paulus spent much more time on Staff duties than with troops.

It was already clear that he lacked the qualities of command. After one exercise in which he
did have to command a regiment, the directing staff reported: 'This officer lacks decisiveness.
A personal report from his commanding officer at this period gives an exceptionally clear,
and even prophetic, appreciation of Paulus's personality and talents:

A typical Staff officer of the old school. Tall, and in outward appearance painstakingly well
groomed. Modest, perhaps too modest, amiable, with extremely courteous manners, and
a good comrade, anxious not to offend anyone. Exceptionally talented and interested in
military matters, and a meticulous desk worker, with a passion for war-games and
formulating plans on the map-board or sand-table. At this he displays considerable talent,
considering every decision at length and with careful deliberation before giving the appro-
priate orders.

“The most essential gift for a good writer is a built-in, shock-proof, bullshit detector. This is the writer's radar and all great writers have had it.” ~ Ernest Hemingway

Enako ali še bolj velja za zgodovinopisje. ;)
tomaz
alien-abducted & replaced
 
Prispevkov: 818
Pridružen: 26.06.2005 18:43:12

OdgovorNapisal/-a klemen55 » 05.06.2006 16:01:33

Hm, imena datoteke sploh nisem pogledal. Sem se le spomnil, da je bilo o Jezeršku govora tudi na starem forumu.


Yeah, right. :-)

"Zviti Lisjaček Erwi"?


Ma kaki... Ali je sploh kdo dobro prebral moje vprašanje??? Dotična oseba na fotografiji je bil častnik v k.k.Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 27 (Ljubljana), se pravi v ljubljanskem 2. gorskem strelskem polku. Rommel je bil v nemški vojski in je prišel na soško bojišče šele jeseni 1917.

Ej, to pravljico za male otroke sem pa že preverjal in ne drži, ne gre za istega človeka. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_von_Paulus


Častnik na sliki je avstro-ogrski častnik v 2. gorsko strelskem polku. Von Paulus ni nikoli bil v avstro-ogrski vojski, torej oseba na sliki ne more biti on.

Oseba na sliki je bil po rodu iz Avstrije in je kasneje postal general (ne feldmaršal!) v nemški vojski 1939-1945. Če sedajle napišem, kje se je boril, boste takoj vedeli njegovo ime, tega presenečenja pa nočem pokvarit. Po vojni je napisal knjigo (ne čisto spomine), kopijo katero imamo celo v NUK-u in INZ-ju v Sloveniji.

Ša manjši namig: Njegovo ime je omenjeno v Matičičevi knjigi. Celo v Klavorini knjigi! Bo to kaj pomagalo, da se ne boste še nadalje blamirali na tem forumi z nekimi Von Paulusi, Rommli, Rundstedti, Guderiani, Himmlerji ipd.? :D

Vidim, da bo treba odpreti Matičičevo ali Klavorino knjigo. Tam avtor(ja) podajata krajši opis tega častnika. Ajmo... Kdo bo prvi? :book1
klemen55
član
 
Prispevkov: 417
Pridružen: 25.05.2006 15:17:48

OdgovorNapisal/-a tomaz » 05.06.2006 16:07:21

Napiši stran, pa jo bom odprl, ker me ob postelji čaka za prebrat kakšen ducat neprebranih knjig, sedem pa jih prihaja še po pošti. Nimam časa, tudi zanimivejše so.
tomaz
alien-abducted & replaced
 
Prispevkov: 818
Pridružen: 26.06.2005 18:43:12

OdgovorNapisal/-a Pinkfloyd » 05.06.2006 16:09:13

klemen55 napisal/-a:...ali Klavorino knjigo...


Ali se ne pravilno napiše Klavorovo knjigo? :?
Only the dead have seen the end of the war...Plato
Pinkfloyd
Leutnant
 
Prispevkov: 1001
Pridružen: 10.10.2005 16:12:11
Kraj: De sancto Petro prope Goritiam

OdgovorNapisal/-a klemen55 » 05.06.2006 16:14:25

Napiši stran, pa jo bom odprl, ker me ob postelji čaka za prebrat kakšen ducat neprebranih knjig, sedem pa jih prihaja še po pošti. Nimam časa, tudi zanimivejše so.


Vasja Klavora - "Koraki skozi meglo", Mohorjeva založba 1994, prva izdaja, str. 40-43. Na eni izmed teh straneh je omenjeno njegovo ime.

Ali se ne pravilno napiše Klavorovo knjigo?


Mislim, da ne.
klemen55
član
 
Prispevkov: 417
Pridružen: 25.05.2006 15:17:48

OdgovorNapisal/-a aljaz » 05.06.2006 17:07:13

Po temeljiti pomoči:

Julius Ringel, oficir v 9. pohodnem bataljonu 27. LIR ?
Al' jaz - al' ti
aljaz
član
 
Prispevkov: 3617
Pridružen: 26.06.2005 20:19:55
Kraj: Steiermark

OdgovorNapisal/-a klemen55 » 05.06.2006 17:18:56

Po temeljiti pomoči:
Julius Ringel, oficir v 9. pohodnem bataljonu 27. LIR ?


Seveda je ta odgovor pravilen.

Kratka biografija Juliusa Ringla, ki se je izkazal kot poveljnik 5. gorske divizije med boji za Kreto 1941. Avtor divizijske zgodovine "Hurrah, Gams!"

Ringel, Julius

* 16. November 1889, Völkermarkt (Kärnten) + 11. Februar 1967, Gmain (Bayern)

Julius Ringel kam 1905 an die Landwehr-Kadettenschule nach Wien. Am 18. August 1909 wurde er dann als Fähnrich in das k.u.k. Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment 4 versetzt, wo er 1910 zum Leutnant befördert wurde. Bei Beginn des Ersten Weltkriegs war er Oberleutnant im Gebirgs-Schützen-Regiment 2, mit dem er während des Krieges in Galizien und an der Alpenfront kämpfte. Bei Kriegsende geriet er in italienische Gefangenschaft. Nach seiner Heimkehr kämpfte er gegen jugoslawische Freischärler in Kärnten. Anschließend wurde er in das österreichische Bundesheer übernommen, 1930 zum Major und 1932 zum Oberstleutnant befördert. Ende 1934 war er im Stab der 5. Gebirgsjäger-Brigade. Als bekennender Nationalsozialist engagierte er sich vor dem Anschluß Österreichs für den Zusammenschluß der beiden Staaten. Nach dem Anschluß wurde er in die Wehrmacht übernommen und Ia in der 3. Gebirgs-Division. Am 1. Februar 1939 zum Oberst befördert, wurde er Kommandeur des Infanterie-Regiments 74. Bei Kriegsbeginn wurde er dann Ia bei der 268. Infanterie-Division. Am 27. Oktober 1939 übernahm er das Infanterie-Regiment 266, welches er im Westfeldzug führte. Am 7. Juni 1940 kehrte er zum Stab der 3. Gebirgs-Division zurück. Am 1. November 1940 zum Generalmajor befördert, wurde er gleichzeitig mit der Aufstellung der 5. Gebirgs-Division beauftragt, deren Kommandeur er anschließend wurde. Im Frühjahr 1941 stand die Division im Kampf in Griechenland und auf Kreta. Für die Erfolge der Division wurde er am 13. Juni 1941 mit dem Ritterkreuz ausgezeichnet. Im März 1942 kam er dann mit seiner Division an die Ostfront. Am 1. Dezember 1942 wurde er zum Generalleutnant befördert und am 25. Oktober 1943 für die Erfolge seiner Division im Nordabschnitt der Ostfront mit dem Eichenlaub ausgezeichnet. Ab Dezember 1943 stand er mit seiner Division in Italien. Am 1. April 1944 wurde er Kommandierender General des LXIX. Armeekorps und am 1. Juni 1944 zum General der Gebirgstruppe befördert. Am 22. Juni 1944 übernahm er als Befehlshaber den Wehrkreises XVIII (Salzburg) und bildete aus den dort stehenden Verbänden das "Korps Ringel", welches er bis Kriegsende führte.

- Ritterkreuz (13. Juni 1941)
- RK mit Eichenlaub (25. Oktober 1943)

Vir: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Per ... gelJ-R.htm

Po svoje je zanimivo, kako je človek, ki se je obnašal kot kakšen objesten gumpec 23. maja 1915 na Ježi/Mengorah pozneje postal visoko odlikovani general nemške vojske. Kot odgovor na to vprašanje mu štejem dejstvo, da je bil avstrijski Korošec. :D

Jah, nič kaj se niste izkazali. :x
klemen55
član
 
Prispevkov: 417
Pridružen: 25.05.2006 15:17:48

OdgovorNapisal/-a 305 » 05.06.2006 19:48:31

No pa še eno bolj zakomplicirano uprašanje. Mene pa zanima kdo je ta poročnik, ki je služil v drugem gorskem strelskem polku. O njem ne vem ničesar drugega, predvidevam pa da v tem polku ni bilo ravno dosti poročnikov, ki so bili odlikovani z "železno krono"

Slika

pozabil slikco pripet :o
Zadnjič spremenil 305, dne 05.06.2006 20:43:46, skupaj popravljeno 2 krat.
Z ZDRUŽENIMI MOČMI
305
dr. Soška Fronta
 
Prispevkov: 7344
Pridružen: 26.06.2005 22:33:03
Kraj: Isonzo front

OdgovorNapisal/-a klemen55 » 05.06.2006 20:16:43

No pa še eno bolj zakomplicirano uprašanje. Mene pa zanima kdo je ta poročnik, ki je služil v drugem gorskem strelskem polku. O njem ne vem ničesar drugega, predvidevam pa da v tem polku ni bilo ravno dosti poročnikov, ki so bili odlikovani z "železno krono"


Morda je bilo ime temu poročniku David-Erich von Pipan? :mrgreen: Kako naj mi vemo njegovo ime, če še sam ne veš?!? Ne ga lom't z takimi.
klemen55
član
 
Prispevkov: 417
Pridružen: 25.05.2006 15:17:48


PrejšnjaNaslednja

Vrni se na Zgodovinopisje


Kdo je na strani

Po forumu brska: Google [Bot] in 0 gostov